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lenney Archmage

Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 885
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Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| I really doubt that you need 22 lands for this deck. Have you tried runnin 20? |
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gonegold93 Grizzly Bear
Joined: 10 Apr 2009 Posts: 28
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Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:53 am Post subject: |
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This is what i ran last monday and made top 8 and the 2 games i lost were very close.
Creatures
4 Goblin Outlander
4 Grixis Grimblade
4 Jund Hackblade
4 Viscera Dragger
3 Singe-Mind Ogre
Spells
4 Blightning
4 Fists of the Demigod
4 Incinerate
4 Terminate
4 Veinfire Borderpost
3 Shock
Lands
8 Mountain
8 Swamp
4 Terramorphic Expanse
SIDEBOARD
4 Smash to Smithereens
4 Hurly-Burly
4 Terror
3 Relic of Progenitus
I take a litle diffeent appaorch because of G/W becoming more in the format do to reborn.
the prot white guy and fist of demigod is a way to deal with G/W shield.
Althought i will take out terror for another black removal because i forgot that the prot red guy was also an artifact. |
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kenwakooo Apprentice

Joined: 30 Oct 2008 Posts: 149 Location: Provo, UT
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Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| gonegold93 wrote: | | Althought i will take out terror for another black removal because i forgot that the prot red guy was also an artifact. |
Try Nameless Inversion. |
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Vissarion Neophyte

Joined: 14 Feb 2009 Posts: 80 Location: Amherst, MA
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:24 am Post subject: |
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This is the build I used to win last night's MPDC. I'm not sure if it should go into this thread or the DDW thread, but whatever.
4 Stream Hopper
4 Grixis Grimblade
4 Riverfall Mimic
4 Noggle Bandit
3 Sewn-Eye Drake
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Clout of the Dominus
4 Sign in Blood
4 Terminate
4 Blightning
9 Mountain
8 Swamp
4 Veinfire Borderpost
Sideboard
4 Duress
4 Magma Spray
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Smash to Smithereens
For the most part, it ran like a dream and was very hard to beat if I got a fast hand. One change I think I'd make is to drop the Drakes and 1 Mountain or Swamp and play a playset of Tarfire instead. Sometimes the Drake was relevant, especially when racing ground-based aggro, but it was mediocre in most other matches. And 12 spot removal seems like a safer bet with all the Aura-based decks running around right now.
I would also drop the SB Sprays for Doom Blade, as I kinda forgot about the whole Vedalken Outlander suited up with Steel of the Godhead thing. I may run the Sprays in place of the Relics, as I really don't like siding in board-neutral reactive cards in an aggro deck, but I still want to remove strategic creatures against Strixy or recursion decks.
Any thoughts on possible changes?
(Hopefully this will at least get one of our official threads active; there seems to be woefully little discussion on the top archetypes) _________________
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khirareq Planeswalker

Joined: 20 Oct 2007 Posts: 1179 Location: Sanford, NC
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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If you remove the sewn-eyes you'll be down to 16 creatures, which seems terrible, especially as you have four auras for enchanting them. I'd be tempted to replace them with the other R/U critter (forget the name, 4 mana 4/3, return a land to your hand) and then possibly a Raven's Crime and a Flame Jab, what with your low curve and constant returning of lands to hand. That would mean cutting Terminates most likely, though I don't know enough about the deck or the format to make that call reliably. _________________ Resident Mad Scientist
- /join pdc - Please!
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Vissarion Neophyte

Joined: 14 Feb 2009 Posts: 80 Location: Amherst, MA
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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Older DDW lists used to only run 16 or so creatures, so I don't think 16 is all that much of a problem. I sided out the Drakes multiple times and never missed them in terms of having a creature to target with Clout. I would definitely not want to play Noggle Bridgebreaker over the Drake, though.
1 Flame Jab main over a Terminate might work, though the meta doesn't have a lot of crucial 1 toughness creatures to hit and I really dislike sorcery speed removal. Raven's Crime would be better in the sideboard, but I don't think that I need more discard when I already have 4 Blightning and 4 Duress between main and SB. _________________
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khirareq Planeswalker

Joined: 20 Oct 2007 Posts: 1179 Location: Sanford, NC
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Vissarion wrote: | | Older DDW lists used to only run 16 or so creatures, so I don't think 16 is all that much of a problem. I sided out the Drakes multiple times and never missed them in terms of having a creature to target with Clout. I would definitely not want to play Noggle Bridgebreaker over the Drake, though. |
Why not? It turns on the Mimic, provides a good target for the clout and adds some fat to the list. I would think just the ability to turn on the mimic would be worth eyeing it. Perhaps the format is prone to ground stalls?
| Vissarion wrote: | | 1 Flame Jab main over a Terminate might work, though the meta doesn't have a lot of crucial 1 toughness creatures to hit and I really dislike sorcery speed removal. Raven's Crime would be better in the sideboard, but I don't think that I need more discard when I already have 4 Blightning and 4 Duress between main and SB. |
Flame jab is less about killing small creatures (though it does that admirably) and more about reach. The idea is to avoid losing the lategame after control stabilizes due to mana flood. I agree about Raven's Crime in the sideboard. _________________ Resident Mad Scientist
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Copperfield Neophyte

Joined: 23 May 2009 Posts: 76 Location: Albany County, New York, USA
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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First of all, I love this idea and I'm not surprised it won a tournament.
If you check the decklists, a good number of DDW decks only had 12 creatures, the Stream Hopper, Riverfall Mimic, and Noggle Bandit. Grixis Grimblade I feel is all that is needed to up the Clout Target-Mimic Trigger ratio beyond that which DDW had before. It sits in the middle of the curve, too, the deathtouch acts as a psuedo-evasion.
I think just the Blade is good. I would say that including more U/R cards shouldn't be the motive in adding another creature in the Drake's slot; you've already done that and increased the DDW power.
My initial thought is to include Viscera Draggers. They can be 3 power hasties for half the mana after spending the other half to cycle them out; this feels like a better use of the same amount of mana in a more card-advantage oriented deck like Blightning. |
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lenney Archmage

Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 885
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| I say leave the drake.. flying AND haste is what makes it powerful, not just haste. |
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Vissarion Neophyte

Joined: 14 Feb 2009 Posts: 80 Location: Amherst, MA
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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I can understand your argument about how the Bridgebreaker may be worth testing, but it seems that unless you are able to play it and then stick Clout on it, it's probably not going to live very long. I'm just not sure if a 4/3 is worth it, but I'll give it a spin.
It could also very well be that this deck simply doesn't want a 4-drop. Frequently it will get stuck in my hand for a decent period of time, and dropping the 4-drop slot lets me lower the curve and drop the land count ever so slightly.
I think you have me convinced about Flame Jab though, even if I still really dislike the sorcery speed aspect. Otherwise it would be so good during the combat step.
Copperfield: I had considered Dragger, but I went for the extra Clout target. It may not be the right decision given the reach that Dragger can give you, not to mention the occasional card draw, but I still wanted to try the Drake. Thing is, if I drop the Drake, I don't know if Dragger is good enough to take the place of another burn spell. _________________
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Verran Apprentice
Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Posts: 125
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't been able to play in a pauper tourney in a while, but it seems like sewn-eye would be a sideboard card anyway. Tapping out on turn four just to get magma spray slapped on it doesn't seem worth it. There is enough burn to make the card seem like a target to distract from something else for four mana, making it a loss of tempo for aggro. I'd sideboard it against non red decks and maindeck some more burn or removal instead.
Dragger's a dead card for Clout, don't really like it, especially with Sign already in the deck.
16 Creatures is plenty, I've played Clout enough to know this. Besides, a popular clout strategy (pre m10) was to sideboard out most of your creatures and clout for more burn while anticipating that your opponent pulls in dead removal.
I really like the deck getting pulled in the R/B direction, too. Card Advantage + discard is really nice in this deck. _________________ IGN: Affy
"Well, at least all of that arm-waving and arcane babbling you did was impressive." |
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IberianWolf Wizard

Joined: 07 Nov 2007 Posts: 519 Location: Lisbon, Portugal
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Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:17 am Post subject: |
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this is supposed to be about blightning... _________________ "There is no such thing as too much removal!"
-Iberian Wolf.
Achievements:
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- UPDC 2.05, TPDC 7.04
- MPDC 1.06, XPDC 1.06
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Vissarion Neophyte

Joined: 14 Feb 2009 Posts: 80 Location: Amherst, MA
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Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Well, the fact that Blightning+Clout seems to work pretty well makes it hard to cordon off discussing Clout dynamics.
I just don't see any convincing reason not to run the best of both archetypes in the deck, so we are left with the fusion.
If it makes you feel better, I can tell you how nifty Blightning is. The thing is, I think that the non-Clout spell slots are pretty much set, making it hard to debate them. I mean, who's going to argue that Sign in Blood, Bolt, or Terminate should be cut? I could maybe see Terminate, depending on the meta, but if the Drakes get dropped for Tarfires, there's no reason not to run Terminate. _________________
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Verran Apprentice
Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Posts: 125
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Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| IberianWolf wrote: | | this is supposed to be about blightning... |
It runs Blightning and the same general strategy, so... _________________ IGN: Affy
"Well, at least all of that arm-waving and arcane babbling you did was impressive." |
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Copperfield Neophyte

Joined: 23 May 2009 Posts: 76 Location: Albany County, New York, USA
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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I have been testing this against Bogle Rock very heavily and have come to a conclusion: go with your first thought and replace the Sewn-Eye Drakes with a playset of Tarfire. The Drake is just no good against a Bant Sureblade with a Favor of the Overbeing on it; Tarfire itself helps get rid of that situation.
Also, with so many shroud creatures in Bogle Rock, you really want some burn to the face options. I say go with -3 Drake, -1 Swamp, +4 Tarfire and you're set. |
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