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Goldenloveninja
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:03 pm    Post subject: Chase Uncommons Reply with quote

Hey, what do you all think are some of the uncommons that'll make it into the 5 of a peasant deck? What uncommons add the most to a fundamentally pauper deck form?

Some of my thoughts:

Board Sweepers! (fundamentally the most valuable because pauper seriously lacks them)
Infest
Pyroclasm
Firespout
Pyrohemia?

Other Random Cards:
Calciderm
Spell Burst
Wizened Cenn
Deadwood Treefolk (2-for-1 recursion)
Kitchen Finks
Murderous Redcap
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JMason
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eternal witness
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KingRitz
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree with the basic theory of the above post. Rather than sweepers, the most important Peasant cards are unquestionably the cards that simply do things that commons don't, or do them far, far better. This especially means combo cards, but generally means cards that are abusive/broken.

Beyond the above, I find that the format using GravespwnGoddess's current rules is blindingly fast, so you have to take that into account. For instance, Infest is lousy because it's redundant with Crypt Rats, it's not "broken," it's too slow (and too small; a lot of aggro is in the form of bigger guys like Atog and Myr Enforcer and Wild Mongrel) to stop the aggro in the format, and it's dead against the large amount of non-aggro I expect to see. On these sorts of rationales, I doubt any of the uncommons listed in the original post are "good," much less "chase," in online Peasant.

Note: Some of the below are online uncommons that count as commons, or online rares that count as uncommons, per GravespwnGoddess's rules (which rely on lowest rarity listed in Gatherling).

Top Peasant-Playable Uncommons:
Hymn to Tourach (counts as common)
Hypnotic Specter (counts as uncommon)
Cabal Therapy
High Tide (counts as common)
Merchant Scroll (counts as common)
Mystical Tutor
Worldly Tutor
Prosperity
Atog (counts as common)
AEther Vial
Berserk (counts as uncommon)
Shrapnel Blast
Ornithopter (counts as common)
Heritage Druid
Wirewood Symbiote
Eternal Witness
Crystal Shard
Haze of Rage
Counterbalance
Sensei's Divining Top
Krark-Clan Ironworks
Telekinetic Sliver
Isochron Scepter
Fire/Ice
Lightning Helix
Astral Slide
Lightning Rift
Tormod's Crypt (counts as common)
Brain Freeze
Tendrils of Agony
Remand
Spell Snare
Rewind (counts as common)
Fact or Fiction
Rage Forger
Skeletal Scrying
The Rack (counts as uncommon)
Dauthi Slayer (counts as common)
Goblin Matron (counts as common)
Goblin Warchief
Goblin Recruiter
Fecundity
Rise/Fall
Kird Ape (counts as common)
Fires of Yavimaya
Flametongue Kavu
Unstable Mutation (counts as common)
Riftwing Cloudskate
Makeshift Mannequin
Psychatog
Flame Javelin
Pyrostatic Pillar
Magma Jet
Slith Firewalker
Quillspike
Urza's Mine (counts as common)
Urza's Tower (counts as common)
Urza's Power Plant (counts as common)
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Last edited by KingRitz on Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:40 am; edited 13 times in total
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Stillirise
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice King. PS Spell burst is like the worst counter ever printed.
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mfmage
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Joined: 12 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

another fairly good add is

Guerrilla tactics (counts as a common)

great versus all the black discard if you are running a burn deck...i should know...i won against MBC by having 2 in hand and getting hit by a okiba-gang Very Happy


but i agree that sweepers and other cards that are in common slots are ok, but not the best uncommons to look for...i prefer to build decks around uncommons, rather than to play them to beef up a common deck

I play Astral slide...and in 2 tournaments it has gone 12-1-1 getting first place and splitting for first the other time

strong uncommon backed by good commons Smile gets the job done!
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KingRitz
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that Guerrilla Tactics, although not terribly powerful or at all a "build-around" centerpiece type card, makes a perfectly respectable sideboard card against black, given its common status in Gatherer.


Notes on updating my above list in general:

From the above list, Demonic Consultation is now BANNED.

Hopefully, Strip Mine, Black Vise, and Mana Drain will hit the ban list rapidly too.

Land Tax, Bazaar of Baghdad, and Channel will have to be watched closely, but I'd guess they'll be okay, and they'll be strong build-around uncommon candidates.
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Kwebie
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demonic Consultation was no reason for to be banned.
We have a big Peasant magic scene here in the north of the Netherlands.

We never found the consultation broken in any form.

Black Vise counts the same for. Strip Mine is banned here. And I have never every seen anybody playing Mana Drain...

Our banned list:
Bazaar of Baghdad
Berserk
Brain Freeze
Cranial Plating (as of 01/04/2009)
Diamond Valley
Frantic Search (as of 29/06/2008)
Jeweled Bird
Library of Alexandria
Mana Drain
Skullclamp
Sol Ring (as of 29/06/2008)
Strip Mine (as of 29/06/2008)
Tendrils of Agony (as of 29/06/2008)

All commons and uncommons from the Unglued and Unhinged sets.
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Kwebie
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First posts aren't allowed to have links in it, so here I go again:
http://peasantmagicgroningen.blogspot.com/2009/02/peasant-magic-rules.html

In the link, you can also see what's on our watchlist and what is unbanned or removed from the watchlist.
You should really check the link out, because this banned list has been build with over 2 years of peasant experience at least once a month!
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Amar
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demonic Consulation was banned when Storm was a problem, but before Tendrils of Agony was banned. It was an attempt by GraveSpawnGoddess to limit the deck without killing it, which ultimately proved unsuccessful.

I had commented to Arnnaria last week that I thought re-allowing Consult might be worth considering. The risk is that Brain Freeze might benefit enough to be a problem (in a deck more like the old Tendrils than the new Brain Freeze build) but I'm not too worried about that. Brain Freeze is no Tendrils.

One reason I'm reluctant to mess with the format right now is that it's incredibly varied and forgiving, largely because it's not powered up. Let's be honest - MBC with Hymns (at common) and probably Hippies (at uncommon) should be a standard gauntlet deck to beat. It almost never shows up though. I recall Boin beating me in the finals of the Season 1 Championship with that deck, and it's appeared a time or two otherwise. But it doesn't get the play that a deck of that power deserves. And I'm fine with that, because it's absence lets me build and run complete nonsense, and the resulting environment is forgiving on the newer players that show up.

We could elevate to a more powered level, where Black Vises fight Dark Ritualed Hymns fight Berserked Keldon Marauders fight Mana Drain-powered whatevers. If the format moves to a certain dominance then you can balance by adding instead of subtracting. But right now Peasant nights remind me more of Magic as it was 15 years ago than they do Vintage as it exists now, in that it really feels like the sky is the limit. And I think we should shut up and enjoy it. Smile
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KingRitz
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demonic Consultation would be hands down the best Uncommon in Peasant Magic if unbanned. It would be the automatic choice for all even remotely combo-like decks playing black. Even Affinity was running Consults. It's banned for good reason; I have zero doubt that Brain Freeze would be good enough to let TZPS dominate if Consult was around. Hell, TZPS replaced Consult with Mystical Tutor, which is Consult -1 card for a worse price (blue is scarcer than black), and even Mystical Tutor was REALLY GOOD. Consult ought to stay banned in my view.

I'd be fine with putting Brain Freeze (and possibly Disciple) on watch, on the other hand; it's really good, and if people played powered-up decks, I think TZPS with Freeze and High Tide would be two of the top 6 (and maybe the best two). Tier 1 would be TZPS, High Tide, Mono-Red, MBC, Affinity, and Slide, with possibly a blue control deck nosing around (Scepter or Counter-Top or just straight MUC unless Mana Drain is banned).

Amar, I'd like to see a more-powered metagame like that one, and I wish people would take Peasant seriously. (Even in that metagame, though, there ought to be no place for idiotic brokenness like Black Vise and Mana Drain and Strip Mine. Ban, ban, ban.)

Oh, also, Kwebie, please tell the people from your Peasant Magic blog that they're building their High Tide decks wrong. No Prosperity is sacrilege, and no Deep Anal in the board when MBC is the best deck is just stupid. Toils of Night and Day and Cloud of Faeries also ought to be considered, though I can at least see the rationale for skipping them in the more-powered offline Peasant. But certainly, Toils > Reach through Mists, and even more certainly, Prosperity belongs.
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Last edited by KingRitz on Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:02 am; edited 5 times in total
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Ranth
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amar wrote:

We could elevate to a more powered level, where Black Vises fight Dark Ritualed Hymns fight Berserked Keldon Marauders fight Mana Drain-powered whatevers. If the format moves to a certain dominance then you can balance by adding instead of subtracting. But right now Peasant nights remind me more of Magic as it was 15 years ago than they do Vintage as it exists now, in that it really feels like the sky is the limit. And I think we should shut up and enjoy it. Smile


Amar, you know i love you to death bud, but seriously that paragraph makes me sick. Basically what i read it as is that we want casual night games in a tourney format . Any serious players/decks need to get lost.
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Kwebie
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I have never played with the High Tide deck, but it works. It really does

it almost always goes off on turn 4, sometimes (with luck) turn 3 and with bad luck on turn 5.

The deck has already proven that it can defeat black decks and I see no reason to suggest that they change the deck, because (like I said), the deck works Smile.

And really, you guys are overestimating Demonic Consultation. We thought that it was powerfull as well, but there is a reason that we didn't ban it in the 2 years that we play peasant now. Our format is healthy with almost never the same deck twice in the format. (Yesterday some Thopter Foundry deck won, after that it was blue/white blink control, fearies, dredge.deck and some other stuff).
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Amar
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ranth wrote:
Amar, you know i love you to death bud, but seriously that paragraph makes me sick. Basically what i read it as is that we want casual night games in a tourney format . Any serious players/decks need to get lost.

A lot of people benefit from a casual games night in a tourney format. I'd say the concept of a PRE in general supports that.

But no, I'm not anti-serious player at all. What I'm saying is that the goal of balancing a format is to balance the format. If there are numerous balancing points then I don't necessarily hold A as being more valid than B simply because A allows many broken cards and B allows none. Especially when the broken cards in question are ones that nobody even owns yet.

And I'll remind you that I'm not suggesting bannings to limit decks - I'm suggesting bannings to limit certain plays. Strip Mine doesn't open anything that isn't already open, but it does exacerbate land screw and there's no benefit to that. It eludes me how a "serious player" would be better off having his 2-land hand face turn 1 LD from the opponent's lucky draw.

Also a quality player rises regardless of format. I would argue it's far more skill testing to succeed in a broad, unpredicable environment than one with a handful of known Tier 1 decks that anyone can copy and pick up. If the latter arises that's fine, but I won't be rolling out the red carpet for it.
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mfmage
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amar wrote:
Ranth wrote:
Amar, you know i love you to death bud, but seriously that paragraph makes me sick. Basically what i read it as is that we want casual night games in a tourney format . Any serious players/decks need to get lost.

A lot of people benefit from a casual games night in a tourney format. I'd say the concept of a PRE in general supports that.

But no, I'm not anti-serious player at all. What I'm saying is that the goal of balancing a format is to balance the format. If there are numerous balancing points then I don't necessarily hold A as being more valid than B simply because A allows many broken cards and B allows none. Especially when the broken cards in question are ones that nobody even owns yet.

And I'll remind you that I'm not suggesting bannings to limit decks - I'm suggesting bannings to limit certain plays. Strip Mine doesn't open anything that isn't already open, but it does exacerbate land screw and there's no benefit to that. It eludes me how a "serious player" would be better off having his 2-land hand face turn 1 LD from the opponent's lucky draw.

Also a quality player rises regardless of format. I would argue it's far more skill testing to succeed in a broad, unpredicable environment than one with a handful of known Tier 1 decks that anyone can copy and pick up. If the latter arises that's fine, but I won't be rolling out the red carpet for it.


man Amar, i gotta say, you are on a roll....I agreed with you in the last thread i read, now in this one!

Good, quality players will find a deck they like, and they will play it...whether that is with broken cards or not doesn't matter...and by having broken cards in a format (especially when they are restricted) allows the LESS strategic player to win off a good card, and not a good play

powerful decks are great, powerful cards are another thing....when you can build a deck that is straight up synergistic...thats awesome...when you just play every good strong card you can find....that is ok too...but it certainly requires less skill than playing with cards that are on par, but get good when you play them in a certain order or while certain game states exist

despite how broken a deck i already have thought up with both black vise and strip mine....i want them banned (or at very least watch listed...NOT restricted...because once restricted it will be a harder battle to convince everyone they should be banned) because I know the cards are too good....and after a few tourneys where everyone uses the cards, and the top deck will be one that uses these strong cards, and ppl will call to ban them....so why have a few weeks of ppl buying cards, only to have them ban those very cards a few weeks later? Just do it now and save us the money....seeing as this is peasant and the cost should be low...why should we put ourselves in the position where we hurt many ppl's pockets?
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Ranth
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay i'll admit i've been fighting tooth an nail for vice cuz it was the best card in the first pack i ever opened and fell in love with it. However beyond that i DO realize the sheer power level of both vice and mine. And if the call is flat ban or 4 of I say ban them. But also like i said with both of these cards it seems that people are overly fearing the turn 1 plays.
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