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Polyjak Planeswalker

Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 3263
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Eegag Chief Podcaster

Joined: 20 Oct 2007 Posts: 492 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:16 am Post subject: |
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Ok, I know this list has almost become a sacred, untouchable object, but I am going to suggest some changes:
First, I think 4x Pallid Mycoderm is too many. Jak often complains during FutEx matches that this is the case. Also, while I don't think 4x Sprout Swarm is, necessarily, too many, I think that having one less might be a better call (except when you're playing against counters, but we haven't seen many counter decks in recent weeks). So, 3x Sprout Swarm, 3x Pallid Mycoderm. This frees up two spots, which I think should go to Lumithread Field MAINDECK.
I also wanted to mention two other things. First, I often play a couple copies of Edge of Autumn in my Saps decks, just because I love Cycling in here. I also have an unhealthy liking for that card. Second, I think that Faith's Fetters should be replaced with Oblivion Ring in the SB once Lorwyn is legal. It comes down quicker, and we don't need the lifegain anyway. |
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Sensei Sorcerer

Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 639 Location: New York, NY
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Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:20 am Post subject: |
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keep the fourth copy of Pallid in the SB. You absolutely need it for the mirror match, no questions asked. I like Edge of Autumn too, but every creature you play early on is like a timewalk till you can reach critical mass with your convoke spells, and Llanowar Elves is more valuable in that respect than being able to cycle in the lategame, which is really only applicable again to the mirror match as most non-mirror games never go past turn 10 _________________ Achievements:
- UPDC (1.11, 2.05) | MPDC (1.13, 3.11) | XPDC 1.09 | SPDC 3.13 | COTW Guildmage Challenge
- UPDC 1.09 | SPDC 3.02 | MPDC (1.12, 3.12)
- UPDC (1.12, 2.03, 2.08, 2.09) | SPDC (3.08, 3.17) | MPDC (0.01, 1.07, 1.08) | XPDC 0.08 | BPDC 1.03
- UPDC (0.12, 1.13) | SPDC (2.12, 3.17, 3.18) | MPDC 0 Champs
Burning the Ever-Loving crap out of Benny Smith since 2007.
The Ninja Guy
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Last edited by Sensei on Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Me5794 Guildmage

Joined: 20 Oct 2007 Posts: 344 Location: Jacksonville,Fl
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Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| Eegag wrote: | First, I think 4x Pallid Mycoderm is too many. Jak often complains during FutEx matches that this is the case. Also, while I don't think 4x Sprout Swarm is, necessarily, too many, I think that having one less might be a better call (except when you're playing against counters, but we haven't seen many counter decks in recent weeks). So, 3x Sprout Swarm, 3x Pallid Mycoderm. This frees up two spots, which I think should go to Lumithread Field MAINDECK.
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I know for myself, Pallid Mycoderm is one of the most feared cards in the Deck. It often spells the end of the game if one of these can be resolved.
i would be more than happy if you take it down to 2 but i think that 3 would be better. That way it won't be in the opening hand, but you should see it sometime in the early mid game. _________________
Captain to the Cause
Rally To the Cause!
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Eegag Chief Podcaster

Joined: 20 Oct 2007 Posts: 492 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:53 am Post subject: |
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I am certainly not arguing about the importance of Pallid Mycoderm. It makes this deck as potent as it is. You just don't want to be holding two of them early in the game. Three, I believe, is the right number.
As for Edge of Autumn, I played it as a 2-of in my last version of the deck (which went 1-2 at Worlds, so take my advice with a grain of salt). I removed the Sprout Swarm and the Mycoderm. Instead of putting in Fields like I recommended above, I used Edge. I didn't draw it much, but when I did it seemed good. However, it might have been just as good if it had been another threat. So, the jury is still out. |
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Polyjak Planeswalker

Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 3263
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Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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To be honest with you, I think it's splitting hairs at this point. The deck's strategy is refined and these ARE the cards that make it happen. Shaving 1 off of 2 cards to add 2 copies of something seems more like a placebo move than anything else.
The sideboard is really where rough matches are decided. And even after O Ring comes out, I think I'm still going to prefer Faith's Fetters. That lifegain is an insurance policy. |
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Eegag Chief Podcaster

Joined: 20 Oct 2007 Posts: 492 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Polyjak wrote: | | To be honest with you, I think it's splitting hairs at this point. The deck's strategy is refined and these ARE the cards that make it happen. Shaving 1 off of 2 cards to add 2 copies of something seems more like a placebo move than anything else. |
Splitting hairs is what makes good decks better. This list is not perfect. Every time you play, you complain about drawing a useless Mycoderm, so why not back it down to three and add something that WILL help. Even if it is only one card, it is still a change toward a more consistent deck. |
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Polyjak Planeswalker

Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 3263
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Eegag wrote: | | Splitting hairs is what makes good decks better. This list is not perfect. Every time you play, you complain about drawing a useless Mycoderm, so why not back it down to three and add something that WILL help. Even if it is only one card, it is still a change toward a more consistent deck. |
Maybe I complain about Mycoderm, but I can't deny he is a HOUSE. Somebody cast 'Echoing Decay' on one of my Saps, which I promptly sacrificed to my Mycoderm to save the rest of them. Just one of the many uses of a white thallid.
Plus, when in my life would I have learned the word 'mycoderm' if not from this card?
You're right, though... in this metagame, the deck needs to be adjusted slightly. I'm not sure what, yet. It will take more testing and playing to find out. |
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hurriboy Wizard

Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 528 Location: MA
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Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| when i played brusselsprouts i only ran 2 marshal cry and 3 sprouts. i used fortify in the spots and it always caught someone. why was fortify cut from the deck? i never understood that. |
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Polyjak Planeswalker

Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 3263
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Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| hurriboy wrote: | | when i played brusselsprouts i only ran 2 marshal cry and 3 sprouts. i used fortify in the spots and it always caught someone. why was fortify cut from the deck? i never understood that. |
The simple answer: it was cut so the deck could start winning.
The slightly less simple answer: Fortify is good at giving +2/+0, but its not as good at protecting guys from a board sweep. That's why Kjeldoran War Cry stays in. And while Marshaling Cry isn't as good as Fortify, it has both Cycling and Flashback, providing more options in the early game and more power in the late game, and card advantage at all times.
There's a whole article about it right here: the birth of Spore Cry. _________________
XPDC |
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Eegag Chief Podcaster

Joined: 20 Oct 2007 Posts: 492 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Spore Cry had two T4s at UPDC, but neither broke through into the Finals. One of the decks was Jak's traditional list. The other had a black splash for Deathspore Thallid and was piloted by this_guy_dan:
2 Llanowar Elves
2 Elves of Deep Shadow
4 Essence Warden
4 Sakura Tribe Elder
3 Deathspore Thallid
4 Selesnya Evangel
4 Pallid Mycoderm
4 Fists of Ironwood
4 Sprout Swarm
4 Scatter the Seeds
3 Echoing Courage
4 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Selesnya Sanctuary
9 Forest
4 Plains
1 Swamp
Sideboard
4 Aven Riftwatcher
4 Faith's Fetters
3 Ethereal Haze
4 Luminthread Field
Is a black splash worth it, or does it slow the deck down in the long run? _________________ My Profile |
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this_guy_dan Hill Giant

Joined: 30 Oct 2007 Posts: 38
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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It was literally a last second deck. I just wanted something to play a couple rounds with for fun, if you had given me Birds.dec, I'd have played that. I had Sakuras, had no time to browse the pool, so I just put in thallids.
GW is probably the way to go, but splashing is very easy so that depends on if the much larger pool has something good to play main or sb. Ideally, I'd like to see a sac. outlet that works well in the deck to counter Echoing spells.
A transformational sideboard is possible and might be needed in fut 1.x.
Notes
*Always play 4 Thallid Mycoderm.
*Ethereal Haze counters Martyr of Ashes.
*You don't need 10-12 pump spells to win. Mycoderm is the best one and that's 4. You only want 2-4 others, and usually only need one per game. Use those valuable slots elsewhere.
*Echoing Courage sux, don't play it.
*Veteran Armorer/Luminthread Field aren't as good in Fut 1.x as T2. The best sweepers vs this are Martyr, Echoing Decay, and Echoing Truth. Rain of Embers isn't the only option anymore.
*With 4 elves, 4 bouncelands, and 4 Sakura, 22 lands worked fine for me.
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Polyjak Planeswalker

Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 3263
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Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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I actually used a lot of this_guy_dan's suggestions in tweaking my deck for XPDC 1.01, and it paid off. So I'll run through them here.
| this_guy_dan wrote: | | Ideally, I'd like to see a sac. outlet that works well in the deck to counter Echoing spells. |
This smacks of inexperience with the deck because you couldn't ask for a better sac outlet than Pallid Mycoderm. But TGD will learn that soon enough...
| this_guy_dan wrote: | Notes
*Always play 4 Thallid Mycoderm. |
Agreed. No question anymore.
| this_guy_dan wrote: | | *Ethereal Haze counters Martyr of Ashes. |
Good call. It also counters ninja effects. I'll run 4 in board, for now. (Ninja effects were plaguing me in previous weeks.)
| this_guy_dan wrote: | | *You don't need 10-12 pump spells to win. Mycoderm is the best one and that's 4. You only want 2-4 others, and usually only need one per game. Use those valuable slots elsewhere. |
He speaks the truth. However, I left 1 copy of Marshaling Cry in main, and the one game I saw it, I cycled it early and used it late for the win, so I didn't regret it at all. But 4 Pallid 4 War Cry is probably enough, for the current meta at least.
| this_guy_dan wrote: | | *Echoing Courage sux, don't play it. |
I could have told you that! Targetting your own guy is ASKING for a 2-for-1.
| this_guy_dan wrote: | | *Veteran Armorer/Luminthread Field aren't as good in Fut 1.x as T2. The best sweepers vs this are Martyr, Echoing Decay, and Echoing Truth. Rain of Embers isn't the only option anymore. |
It depends on the matchup. I actually really benefitted from having Veteran Armorer on the board, as I could block 4/4s with 4 Saps and have them all escape alive (thanks to Pallid Mycoderm) but still take down the aggressor. I wouldn't recommend taking Armorer out of main. On the other hand, Field is nowhere near my deck at the moment.
| this_guy_dan wrote: | | *With 4 elves, 4 bouncelands, and 4 Sakura, 22 lands worked fine for me. |
I still swear by 20. (I guess the list has 21 right now.) So far, the results haven't changed my mind. Lots of Convoke going on, which makes lands less important.
Deck still needs a bit of tuning, especially the sideboard. But that's well in hand.
Also, I decided to add Judge Unworthy (in main, replacing 2x Marshaling Cry) and they were outstanding. Not only did they remove a creature every time I wanted them to (once I opted not to kill a guy just so I could keep my topdeck Sprout Swarm), but they always dug me into something awesome. I love them in this deck.
So thanks a bunch, dan, for your suggestions! You have rekindled my interest in tweaking and optimizing this list! _________________
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IberianWolf Wizard

Joined: 07 Nov 2007 Posts: 519 Location: Lisbon, Portugal
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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seeing how this deck has already proven of itself, shouldn't this thread be stickied?
Last edited by IberianWolf on Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Boin Planeswalker

Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 1530
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| What about adding another way to sack saps to the sideboard to deal with echoing spells. |
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