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[Official Thread] High Tide

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KingRitz
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:25 pm    Post subject: [Official Thread] High Tide Reply with quote

High Tide

Amar
Pez 3.3 - Nov 8 2009

2 Brain Freeze <---- uncommon
3 Prosperity <----- uncommon
4 Brainstorm
4 High Tide
4 Ideas Unbound
4 Merchant Scroll
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Ponder
4 Psychic Puppetry
2 Reach Through Mists
4 Toils of Night and Day
3 Words of Wisdom
18 Island

Sideboard
-----------
4 Deep Analysis
4 Disrupt
3 Gigadrowse
4 Hydroblast

Amar wrote:
I made some major play errors, especially against Zwick. But my pattern is working: 4 mono-color weeks in a row, 4 wins in a row. The tough one will be completing the cycle with Mono-green next week. Sideboard your Perish!


KingRitz wrote:
Nice deck. When should I expect my royalty check in the mail? Wink


Amar wrote:
Yes it's a very nice deck. Even having played with it now, I couldn't begin to think of changing anything.

Deep Analysis I figured should be brought in against a slower deck or one with discard, although I didn't necessarily want 4. But I wasn't sure what the best thing to pull out was. Ponder seemed a reasonable choice at first, but then I realized without those it's harder to hit early land drops and thus the 4 mana is an issue. Other candidates were Prosperity and Words of Wisdom.


Thanks, Amar.

I know that the sideboard is not necessarily optimal, but I feel darn confident that the maindeck is as good as it can get.

Words of Wisdom gets cut after sideboarding a decent amount, particularly against burn (though I generally keep one for an instant-speed tutorable decking solution when I can't afford to let me opponent live to their upkeep step).

It's tough to find cuts against black, and sometimes I just skim from various cards. Usually against black I cut the Reach Through Mists, since they're not needed for tapping anything down at EOT (a good use for them, with Puppetry) and they're otherwise lousy pre-combo and just solid but unspectacular mid-combo.

Fewer than four Deep Analysis could be right in the sideboard. If your opponents run no untargeted discard and you don't get lucky in your random pitches, it's only fair, but it's still one of the best tools available for some of the more difficult matchups.

Other sideboard options include Annul (if Affinity is big and you need a boost to win races, or if you're worried about Counterbalance or Scepter -- Scepter is easy anyway, but Counterbalance is a pain in the butt) or Envelop (yet another futile attempt not to lose to the one really bad matchup: Mono-Black Discard).

An out-of-left field option, since the deck doesn't actually *need* its sideboard that much, would be to invent some sort of transformational sideboard. I have no idea how that could work or what it would look like, though. It would have to utterly crush mono-black discard to be worthwhile.
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procumbo
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Joined: 18 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this deck is this strong with Toils of Night and Day, it is going to be bonkers once we have Frantic Search...
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Amar
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, Saga block could kick the whole thing up a lot. Perhaps too much.

Thanks Kingritz, great explanation. With combo decks there's always the risk of oversideboarding, and transformation does have appeal. I guess that would just mean the best creatures blue can offer?

Ophidian actually comes to mind since it would supplement rather than replace the rest of the deck. But then black has 2/2s that can just stand in the way all day long. So instead I guess you could try 4 Spire Golem and 4 Errant Ephemeron and use the other spells supplementally knowing that they've sided removal out.
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ouallada
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:33 pm    Post subject: PEZ 3.3, eh? Reply with quote

Love the deck. I must be confused about what pez 3.3 means. You can't play with urza's block cards?

This was my main question about the deck: do you consider it to be better than a build that uses frantic search, snap, and cloud of faeries instead of the splice / arcane stuff?

If you did have access to all sets, how would your build likely look? What kamigawa cards make the grade then? Peer through depths seems like impulse 5-8, so that seems like a good candidate. I dunno... talk to me.
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KingRitz
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: PEZ 3.3, eh? Reply with quote

ouallada wrote:
Love the deck. I must be confused about what pez 3.3 means. You can't play with urza's block cards?

This was my main question about the deck: do you consider it to be better than a build that uses frantic search, snap, and cloud of faeries instead of the splice / arcane stuff?

If you did have access to all sets, how would your build likely look? What kamigawa cards make the grade then? Peer through depths seems like impulse 5-8, so that seems like a good candidate. I dunno... talk to me.


Pez 3.3 is the third event of the third season of the online Peasant Player Run Event. Urza's Block has not been released online, and some of the "free" spells, like Snap/Cloud of Faeries are questionable, but some other "free" spells would be no-brainers (*cough*franticsearch*cough*).
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theauthenticsimpsonian
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frantic Search would probably get banned after a few events since the card is too good in the archtype. Don't believe me? It was banned in Extended and is banned/restricted in Legacy and Vintage. I'd let it stay in the format for at least 2 weeks, but I'd expect at least a finals appearance for its first 2 events.
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Hennink
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frantic Search was banned in our first banning round in Groningen. It is indeed too filthy for words...

The High Tide deck of choice in our tournaments is Arcane Tide, but that's because Brain Freeze is banned as well and you are obviously not going to win on Prosperity alone. The full arcane shell ensures you'll cycle through your library by shuffling key cards back with Stream of Consciousness.

Then again, if you have Brain Freeze available, this is a more optimal build I think.
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procumbo
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What happens in the High Tide mirror? Going off doesn't seem all that appealing...you don't really want to be the first guy to put Brain Freeze on the stack, and resolving Prosperity is suicidal.
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Amar
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

procumbo wrote:
What happens in the High Tide mirror? Going off doesn't seem all that appealing...you don't really want to be the first guy to put Brain Freeze on the stack, and resolving Prosperity is suicidal.

I haven't played that, but I have to suspect it involves tapping the opponent. Toils and puppetry can tap as well as untap, and you're not really in a rush, so try to hit land drops then tap as much as you can at their EOT before you go off. If they still have untapped islands, I imagine you tap them early and make them float, while leaving yourself untapped land. Then pass through attack phase to empty their pool, and win.

It does sound awkward.

After sideboard, you have Gigadrowse and maybe Disrupt, so those will help.
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KingRitz
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, if you Freeze and they Freeze in response, you can Freeze again and Words to win with theirs still on the stack. That's not as unreasonable as it sounds, because this deck usually won't have both Freezes until deep into comboing, if at all, so you can expect your non-comboing opponent not to get both even probably off one moderate Prosperity from you.

Their best shot, in some cases, may be to Freeze you with a big Prosperity on the stack. So be careful of the Storm count when you Prosperity, unless you're prepared to deck them right back and at least draw. The matchup does draw about once a match, in my limited experience.

Oh, and, if you're willing to risk that they don't have both Freeze(s) AND Words of Wisdom, you can just Freeze them regardless. Even if they mill you too, they'll deck first. Just don't Freeze them while you have draw on the stack. This is risky, though, because of Words.

Overall, though, both of my above points are secondary. Amar's discussion is on the mark about the most common ways to try to win the rarely-played mirror.
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JAMZONFIRE
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've played a couple games with a version of this offline, and the card you guys haven't mentioned from urzas is turnabout.
its fetchable off of scroll, functions as a desperation gigadrowse, and nets you an unholy amount of mana. All I've found myself needing is this and frantic search for my mana engine.


While transforming seems solid, its really really hard to do in pauper/peasant (no goyfs, negators, especially in mono-u), especially out of a storm shell; all i could see would maybe be spire golem for beatdown?
Have you considered train of thoughts and maybe some more lands against permission? seems pretty reasonable

also, it doesnt work in this combo deck (too slow/bad card against aggro), but in something like tpps windfall seems just dumb. It's basically a timetwister in faster storm decks on the play.
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KingRitz
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JAMZONFIRE wrote:
I've played a couple games with a version of this offline, and the card you guys haven't mentioned from urzas is turnabout.
its fetchable off of scroll, functions as a desperation gigadrowse, and nets you an unholy amount of mana. All I've found myself needing is this and frantic search for my mana engine.


While transforming seems solid, its really really hard to do in pauper/peasant (no goyfs, negators, especially in mono-u), especially out of a storm shell; all i could see would maybe be spire golem for beatdown?
Have you considered train of thoughts and maybe some more lands against permission? seems pretty reasonable

also, it doesnt work in this combo deck (too slow/bad card against aggro), but in something like tpps windfall seems just dumb. It's basically a timetwister in faster storm decks on the play.


Windfall is indeed nice for TZPS. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!

Turnabout seems nice, but needing uncommon slots for the kill and for Prosperity makes its place in the deck uncertain. It's a huge mana boost, but I want a huge card boost even more, and Prosperity is SO good -- it's hard to want to cut that. Offline, with an all-commons kill perhaps using Mnemonic Wall/Capsize, you could run both Turnabout and Prosperity. Online, it's too much clicking without having an uncommon that kills more easily, I think.
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